One of the major themes in these 2023 MLB playoffs has been familiar faces starring in new places. This is especially true for star shortstops such as Corey Seager with the Rangers, Carlos Correa with the Twins and Trea Turner with the Phillies.
But those teams aren’t the only ones who’ve acquired an All-Star shortstop recently. I have a new teammate of my own here at FOX Sports: Yankees legend and Hall of Famer Derek Jeter, who began this year as an MLB on FOX studio analyst.
With the postseason in full swing, there’s no better guest for a wide-ranging interview than they one they call The Captain. Jeter joined me in studio and touched on topics like working with David Ortiz after being on opposite sides of so many epic Yankees–Red Sox battles, the role of analytics in baseball, how players pace themselves in the postseason and his ability to be clutch in October. I also asked him how his iconic “flip” play in the 2001 ALDS against the A’s compares to Austin’s Riley doubling up Bryce Harper to end Game 2 of the Phillies-Braves NLDS on Monday.
Check out our Q&A with Jeter below, and listen to the full episode on “Flippin’ Bats” wherever you get your podcasts!
The conversation below has been lightly edited for brevity and clarity.
Ben Verlander: I want to start by asking about a current teammate and a heated rival for so many years — David “Big Papi” Ortiz. Not only did you guys embody those epic Yankees-Red Sox battles, you have opposite personalities, but you guys have now kind of jelled into an odd couple on TV. What’s it been like working with him?
Derek Jeter: I hated David Ortiz. I really did. [Laughs] Nah, I didn’t know David well, because — I don’t ever want to be the “back in the day” guy, but back in the day when we were playing against people, it wasn’t like I was trying to go out to dinner with everyone. We were trying to beat you. David and I were always respectful. We’d have interaction on the bases, but I really didn’t know him well. But his personality is exactly what you see on TV. It’s exactly who he is. And I’ve enjoyed getting to know him a little bit better over the last few months.
BV: It seems like he used that loose personality to his advantage. I’ve heard you talk about how before games, he would go up to the Dominican pitchers on the other team and just kind of chop it up with them try and loosen them up, in hopes that they wouldn’t pitch him inside and he could get on top of the plate and do damage against them. Is that true, and do you think that actually worked in his favor?
DJ: One-hundred percent true. David Ortiz never got pitched inside, especially by us. He was friendly with all the pitchers. During pregame stretch, he’d be over there in the middle of the field. It used to irritate me so much, especially considering how much he hit against us. We used to get hit all the time, and we never pitched David inside. I think that’s a big reason why he’s in the Hall of Fame because of the friendships he had.
BV: What do you think he was saying to those guys when he was walking over there? Was he just being friendly?
DJ: “Let’s go out to dinner! Let me help out the family, send them some money to help them out.” Whatever it took in order for them to not pitch him inside.
BV: You and Ortiz were also, I think, two of the most clutch players to ever play this sport. You guys were able to perform under the utmost pressure in October. How were you and guys like him able to separate yourselves from everyone else when things got the hardest?
DJ: I grew up in the postseason. I played my first postseason game my rookie year and was basically in the playoffs all the time on the Yankees. You have to have fun, you have to enjoy those moments, and then you have to be prepared. I think that’s what helps slow the game down for you. But you have to be put in those situations and then once you have some level of success, I think you just always look back on those moments.
I remember when I played high school basketball, I had a game-winning 3-point shot. So, anytime I played basketball after that, I’d always go back to that memory. And I missed so many shots. But my mind would go back to the times I had success and I just think it’s about enjoying those moments, not shying away from those moments and not being afraid to fail. Because baseball is a sport where you’re gonna fail more than you succeed.
BV: Can you prepare for those moments?
DJ: I don’t necessarily know if you can prepare for those particular moments. But my biggest fear in life is being unprepared. You know, you hear athletes say a game speeds up or it slows down, it slows down when you’re prepared for it. I’m pretty sure if you do an interview, as you’re talking to people and you know nothing about them, you’re gonna be like, “Oh, my God, what do I say next?” But if you prepare yourself for it, it’s fun. You know what you’re going to say, you know what you’re going to do. So, I just always tried to be as prepared as I possibly could.
BV: You mentioned that 3-point shot you hit and you go back to that in your mind, is that what you were doing in your baseball career? You come up as a rookie and you’re in the postseason, you have success, and you have more and more success in the playoffs as your career goes on — you use those moments to go back to and lean on?
DJ: No question. I was telling this story on air yesterday — one time I saw Reggie Jackson right before the playoffs started and he said during his career, when it got close to October, the weather started to change and everyone used to say, “Mr. October’s coming.” So he started to believe it. No matter how he felt or how he was playing at the time, he started to believe that he was Mr. October, and that helped him with his success. I think if you have that belief, it gets you through a lot of situations.
Alex Bregman talks with Derek Jeter, David Ortiz and Álex Rodríguez
BV: What are your thoughts on the use of analytics in baseball now? My personal opinion, we see it work over the course of 162 games. But when it gets to the postseason, it almost feels like the game of baseball is different in October and it feels like these teams want to rely so much on analytics instead of just going with the feel of a situation or understanding that a player might be locked in or super clutch.
DJ: It’s too much. Mr. Torre [former Yankees manager Joe Torre] used to always say, “Players have heartbeats.” There’s no analytical formula for heartbeats. You have to understand which players shine in big moments and when players are nervous. Look, the postseason is completely different. There’s a different set of pressures there, you can see on a lot of players’ faces whether or not they’re overwhelmed. You can see confidence. You can have a game plan going into it, but sometimes things change. If someone is performing well, keep them out there. Even though the game plan says, “I’m gonna take them out with a particular pitch count or so many times through the order,” who cares? You’ve got to go with your feel, and I think the sport is losing some of that.
But then I think also some of the most successful teams even in the postseason are sort of a hybrid of the two, especially with the old-school managers, whether it’s Dusty Baker or Bruce Bochy. There’s a lot of managers out there that really know how to use the information but also have a feel for the game.
BV: Do you have a story about Joe Torre managing in October and going against the analytics where it ended up working?
DJ: Mr. T rode his starters. He would go on feel. We’d have guys out there six, seven or eight innings sometimes. He would go out to the mound, he’d look pitchers in their eyes and he’d ask them how they feel. He’d say, “Be honest with me, tell me how you feel.” And depending on the response, he’d keep them in or take them out. But he’d leave it up to the players a lot of the time. He built a lot of trust throughout the years and throughout the course of a season, and he trusted his players.
Hall of Famer Derek Jeter on analytics
BV: When you were in those mound meetings as a shortstop, were there ever any pitchers who actually said, “Nah, I’m not good”? Or was he just trying to read their eyes and determine how they actually felt beyond what they said?
DJ: I think it was a little bit of both. Some guys can say, “I’m a little tired. That’s all I got.” Other guys would try to lie even when they weren’t feeling good, and you appreciate that as well. But you get to know people when you spend six months with them before the playoffs start.
BV: You talked about the difference between old-school managers and new-school managers. I know Rocco Baldelli is a bit of a younger guy, but we saw a situation recently with Carlos Correa where he hadn’t hit in the four hole for a long time for the Twins, but when the calender turned to October, Baldelli put him in the cleanup spot and that kind of felt like one of the situations where he was going more off feel and knowing a guy and his character in that situation.
DJ: You’re knowing the player, you’re knowing the history, you’re knowing what players are like in big moments. You understand your lineup, all 25 or 26 guys. Sometimes you make adjustments from series to series, or even from game to game. And you should know that as a manager because you’re around the guys.
BV: One thing that’s becoming super relevant in baseball today with the new playoff format is the first-round bye for top two seeds in each league. But we’ve seen teams experience long periods of downtime in the playoffs before. In 1996, your Yankees team had seven days off between the ALCS and World Series, and in Game 1 of that World Series, the Braves blew you out 12-1 at Yankee Stadium. How do you deal with that downtime after playing over 162 games with very few days off mixed in there, and then all of a sudden in the most important stretch of the season you have a week off?
DJ: I don’t know. That’s the best way to put it. Look, it’s beneficial to have the days off for your pitching staff, but it absolutely hurts you offensively. So it’s sort of a double-edged sword. I don’t know what you can do. As a baseball player, especially offensively, you play every day for a reason. I never liked to have days off, especially in the All-Star break where you would sometimes have three or four days off and then come back and your timing is off. Now, you have four or five days off and you come back to the biggest games of the year. So, really, I don’t have much of an answer because I don’t think there is much you can do.
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BV: What’s the difference for a hitter stepping into the batter’s box day after day, and then doing so after seven days off?
DJ: You gotta get used to velocity. I mentioned this the first day we were on air for the playoffs; you can have simulated games, but those are not the same. When you’re facing your own team’s pitchers, nobody’s gonna throw you up and in. You know what pitches are coming because you don’t want to get injured before the postseason starts. So, it’s all timing — especially nowadays with how hard these guys throw. When you have a few days off, it’s tough to adjust back and it takes a little while to.
BV: You faced 22 pitchers in the postseason that are currently alongside you in the Hall of Fame, a remarkable number. Who was the toughest to face?
DJ: Oh, man. The toughest pitcher on me personally was Roy Halladay. I just couldn’t figure him out. But the best pitcher I ever faced was Pedro Martinez. He probably had the best stuff all around out of anyone I faced. He had the best fastball, best curveball, best slider and best changeup. But I liked facing Pedro. I just couldn’t figure out Halladay.
BV: What was it about Halladay? What made him so good against you?
DJ: It was his sinker, his two-seamer, his cutter. Every time I thought it was going one way, it went the other. And we faced them a lot because he was in Toronto. So, he always seemed to get us every series. But I’m sure I’m not the only one that had problems with Roy Halladay.
BV: You hit .234 in your career off Halladay. You hit .333 off Pedro in the postseason, by the way.
DJ: Remind people of that, please.
BV: I have fellow FOX Sports teammate John Smoltz on the show every Saturday, and he tells a bunch of stories. I need a good Smoltz story from you.
DJ: For us as a team, Smoltz was the toughest matchup. We faced him in the 1996 World Series, I don’t think he pitched until Game 3 or 4. And then same thing in 1999. We thought, “Oh, my God, this guy’s the toughest matchup,” because he threw hard. When he was pitching that late in a series, it helped us a bit and we liked our chances. But Smoltz was, for me personally, the toughest one to face in that Braves rotation.
Jeter on the greatness of Shohei Ohtani
BV: Roger Clemens was obviously a teammate of yours and you played against him, as well. But I’ve heard you say before, he’s the kind of guy that at an All-Star game, he’s not going to become friends with the players in that locker room. He would not talk to the hitters on the team.
DJ: No, he wouldn’t. That’s very true. He didn’t want to interact with the hitters because I think he wanted that intimidation factor. And it worked. You know, Rocket’s a big boy. I remember, I used to get hit by his pitches all the time. I joked about it with him when he came over to New York, but he hit me all the time. I remember a friend saying, “You should charge the mound.” I’m like, “Man, you know how big Roger Clemens is?” He was not trying to be friendly.
BV: Did you ever charge the mound against anyone?
DJ: I didn’t, no.
BV: Do you regret never charging the mound?
DJ: I don’t, because in baseball, you’re at a disadvantage with the catcher behind you and the pitcher in front of you and four infielders on top of you before you get help, so it wouldn’t make sense.
BV: Speaking of all-time greats, there’s a guy currently playing that I talk about a lot and wanted to ask you about — Shohei Ohtani. What are your thoughts, as a guy who is one of the most clutch players in baseball, Hall of Famer, one of the best to ever do it — to see what Ohtani is doing offensively and then also what he does on the mound, what’s it like for you to watch him?
DJ: He’s a unicorn. It’s tough enough to just be a great hitter or offensive player, or to be a great pitcher. For him to be able to do both is pretty remarkable. I can’t really relate to it. You run out of adjectives to describe him. It’s fun to watch. Unfortunately, he got injured, but hopefully he can come back and be both a pitcher and a hitter again. But there’s a reason why starting pitchers get four days off. You know this from your brother, pitchers have got to rest their bodies. They’ve got to get ready for their next start. Here he is, you know, we saw this summer where he throws a one-hit shutout in the first game of a doubleheader then comes back and hits two home runs in the second game. That’s unheard of.
Jeter discusses Austin Riley’s heads-up play to end G2 of Phillies-Braves
BV: Do you think it’s sustainable?
DJ: It’s an easy question to answer now that he’s hurt. But I hope so, from a fan’s perspective, just to watch it again.
BV: I want to talk about one of the most famous postseason moments ever defensively, your flip against the Oakland A’s to get Jeremy Giambi at home plate in the 2001 ALDS. What were you doing there in that situation?
DJ: I was supposed to be there. That’s where I was supposed to be. Yeah, I’m not supposed to flip it home like that, but I’m the third cutoff man. You can see it on the video. So, if the runners are going to score, I would have redirected the throw to get the runner trying to get to third base. I was supposed to be aligned in that neighborhood of the field, but not to throw it home.
BV: We’ve seen a couple heads-up defensive plays like that in the postseason — Correa throwing home in a wild-card game against the Blue Jays and Austin Riley ending Game 2 against the Phillies by being that extra cutoff man and throwing Bryce Harper out at first. Do you see any similarities between those two plays and your flip?
DJ: They’re all different. But I think the key is, you always have to be aware of what’s going on. You have to be aware of the situation. In Riley’s situation, he saw where Bryce was, and he was moving. You’ve got to keep moving. Riley is pointing to first and then, sort of like my flip, the throw misses the first two cutoff men and he’s right there to redirect it. It was a heads-up play by him there.
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BV: One more question before you go — you were a 14-time All-Star, five-time Silver Slugger, five-time World Series champion, the captain of the New York Yankees. What do you think you did wrong to not be a unanimous Hall of Famer?
DJ: [Laughs] I think I did a lot of things right. The media expects athletes to be accountable. Whether you have a good game, or you have a bad game, you stand in front of your locker, and you answer your questions. I think the athletes deserve the same thing. I would never sit here and say everyone should have voted for me. Not everyone voted for Hank Aaron or Babe Ruth, so I would never say that about myself. I get tired of answering the question, when that question should be answered by the particular person who did not vote for me, and that’s how I look at it.
But once again, to make sure everyone understands, I’m not saying that everyone should have voted for me. But they should ask him or her to answer that question. I shouldn’t have to answer.
BV: Do you know or think you ever will know who that voter was?
DJ: I don’t. I have no idea. And at this point, I don’t think I’ll find out.
BV: If you could ask that person any question in the world, what would you ask them?
DJ: I wouldn’t ask them anything — just redirect the questions I get.
BV: I agree completely. They should have to be accountable, as well, just like the athletes are. Derek, this has been a lot of fun. Thanks so much.
DJ: Thank you for having me. I appreciate it.
